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 TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )

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The Stranger
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PostSubject: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:30 pm



I'm going to make this short and sweet.

WHY MUST A BAND PAY FOR THEM TO PLAY IN A GIG?

It has come to my attention that some organizers are charging bands for them to be included in their events. The reason for this i heard is that "para sa pagkaon sang banda". But shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't be the bands be the one taken cared of? In this case, it seems like the bands are the ones who are taking care of the organizers. That's just soooooooo wrong in so many levels.

For the bands here in Iloilo, don't let yourself be exploited by these individuals. They need you more than you need them.
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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:06 pm

ga.uso na gid ni sbng... Neutral pro i guess kng fair trade lang gro sa org kg bands,.. nga mabayad ka pro my return nga tsk2,.. pro my ara gd nga dw i dont knw... ila nlng na gimik ah...

*kulbaan ko bsi my ma.straping skon bla mg.comment ko* spin

hahaha lol!

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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:37 pm

nice observation stranger...

kung may ari d organizers nga ga ask bayad sa bands, maybe you can post a reply here and air out your side... basi man lang may rason sila on why they do it... until then, ill be keeping an open mind ah....
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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:55 am

delicate issue...

i go for yes=exploitation...bands here in iloilo don't have nothing. they pay their own fare, they pay for practice, they don't have PAs, they don't have free hotel rooms, sponsored shirts and stuff, they are not VIP's...they only have music...

if organizers demand some amount from the bands just to play a gig is somekind of exploitation in regards to band and orgs. relationship.

"pay to play"

1. bands don't need to pay the organizers just to let their music be heard
2. bands don't need to pay organizers just to play simple gigs
3. daw ga nubo ang image sang mga banda nga mabayad pa sila para katukar sang mga gusto nila or para kang maka express sila.
4. kung ang music laktan kwarta. lain na nga isturya

5. bawiay lang.. la man gani ga reklamo ang mga banda nga maskin wala sila may makwa. free entrance lang..teh kung mapbayad ang mga orgs tapos la man balik daw ka unfair man bala.
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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:19 am

pro i guess,. it all goes down sa banda,.. kng ang banda mismo indi gsto mg.bayad ila gd na ya right. wala na my mahimo ang production kng ndi gsto ang banda,.. gling my bands gd yah nga gsto mg.2kar,.. bla na kng ma.bayad kng pla ang blaydan... especially mga new bands sbng,.. para lang ka 2kar... mona lang anay ah.. hehehe sensitve stuff ni dan.. hehe..

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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:55 pm

yes agree gid ko it is wrong.

amu na tni nga mga values gusto man i-instill sang una sang mga gigs like play-for-pay(KUB) and one night stand.

come to think of it. especially sa play-for-pay sang una. bragging aside. ginbayadan gane ang mga banda nga showband nga gatukar covers. ngaa ang mga banda ya nga gatukar originals (nga "rock" galeng) wala ginabayran. amu na tani na promote namon sang una.

huo maybe tungod our kind of music is not as profitable gid man parehas sa mga show bands. but ang sukton ang band para makatukar. is grabe nagid ya nga pakanubo sa mga banda.

but mu mna sturyahan namon sang una. indi mo man maconvince ang mga banda nga mangindi bskn hamblan mo sila. so ang gakatabo gyapon. consensual exploitation. consensual rape. kay diri galeng sa Iloilo b. ang bands are not that tight-knit naman or organized all over again. indi pwede ka kahambal collectively nga iboyoctt ta na nga production or gig kay bullshit na. if ma-boycott b ang a few bands. wala man gyapon difference. kay mga organizers ya makwa mlang na ya iban nga bands nga willing magpabastos sa ila.

kaagi man kami pagig. intiendehan man na namon nga may mga expenses gid kung magpa-gig ka. kulbaan ka basi mapierde inyo gig. ukon mamalayran ka. so maniguro ka na lang sukot sa bands. but cnyo na ya. inyo na na ya risk. kay ang bands wala man ya stake sa inyo outcome nyo. mayu man or indi. unlike b sa mga KUB bands sang una. gaamot kami biskan kami man gatukar. kay we know man gyapon in the end iuli mna gyapon sa amon kag kami man mabenefit if mayu ang outcome sang gig kay we were a part sang production. but ang mga bands ya nga indi na part sang productions, wala na kami ya right magsukot sa ila. kay ila role ya is to play THEIR music lang. for their part tukar lang sila mayu kag invite friends kag promote the gig, ayus na na. ang gig negosyo gid man. but sa negosyo may risks gid na. if gusto pangwartahan sang orgs ang talents sang mga bands. then thats the risk that they should take. indi nga ihatag ya nila ang responsibility sa bands.

and organizers should also realize nga if they're in it to make money, then indi amu ni nga negosyo para sa ila. kay wala ka gid na diri kwaon. dapat you should do it for passion. passion bala nga mabawi mo lang capital mo sadya kna. kay bands do it for passion man not for money. ok lang sakon indi pagbayran ang banda but indi lang sila pagpabayron man. org man sila indi man catering service. damu man klan-on sagwa venues sa iloilo hehe

sa mga bands tani. know your worth man. it doesn't mean kay tungod baguhanon kamo. mapasugot lang kamo ya nga tapakan kamo. to start with. dapat you should get what you deserve. deserving kamo to get at least bskn respeto lang. you’re an artist not an entertainer. think of it this way. kalain panumdumon nga ginpatukar kamo kay indi tungod nanamian or may salig ang org cnyo, or ok pa na gane bskn tungod migo nyo ang org. but ginpatukar kamu ya kay tungod kamu lang ang ang banda nga willing magbayad sa ila.

bands should learn how to say NO. how to say no your org can't treat us this way anymore.

bands need organizers as much as organizers need bands. give and take lang tani. fair trade

and if the siege tour outcome according kay JeezMan Productions nga ayus is any indication. gabalik na ang support sa non-showband type of music na cguro taurendance
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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:13 am

very well said robot!

We at Undertone before touched this issue.... gin confront na ako gani sang isa ka org sang una because of what was written sa Undertone. Ang sabat ko lng sa ila was, were part of the scene and care of what would happen to it in the future. what about you guys?

Im going to speak now not as an admin of Eksena but as a former vocalist of a local band. What im about to say is my personal opinion and does not reflect the opinion of the Eksena staff with regards to this matter.


I think its time for us to take a stand with regards to this. Sorry sa ma igo, but i think its high time to ignore or boycott these orgs or production outfits.

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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:07 am

we've seem to have touched delicate grounds. maybe if we have a representative from these organizers engaging in these practices, please do air out your side and maybe we can have a proper, intelligent discussion on this matter...

im still keeping an open mind on this issue to be fair to the other side...
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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:03 am

let's put it this way...we are brothers and sisters, orgs. and bands, you help us we help you.. have your gig, we play. get your profit, we go home with nothing.

advice lang sa mga orgs:

1. if your talking about business sa mga gigs expect na kamo na ma pirde kamo then take the risk. kung may profit then good if not teh my next time pa.

2. indi lango lango ang magpa gig, i have talked to some organizers and yes gakapirde sila, but ok lang kay they know the business man.

3. don't get your CAPITAL (for expenses) from the bands - and that is one reason ngaa gapabayad ang mga orgs.

4. there are some organizers indi mag pag gwa sang kwarta muna siguro gapabayad sila sa bands and sa sales para ma cover ang expenses. teh kung muna ang tanawon:

lipay banda - nagbayad
lipay orgs - la gasto

teh sin o ang mka benefit sang gig????

tani may mga orgs. di na maka reply sa views nila parte diri...and THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENT between kung din sakto or ano da...this is purely opinion based sa mga gakatabo...ayt?...hihihih cherry cherry cherry cherry
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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:17 pm

i remember my ng.hmbl ni skon while ara kami sa isa ka drinking session,... ang ng.hmbl na,.. member sya xng isa ka org nga mona rules nla... remmber ko " mhen, sundon ta bla style sa manila.. where bands have to pay, or madala cla friends nla".. para daw "Lain" kuno.. never thought nga ubrahon niya gid man ang mona nga style sa pag.orgs diri sa iloilo.. pro ang surprising lang gid yah... ang ma.front.act ka tapos mabayad ka.. daw mona ang indi tsakto,.. pro again surprsingly... damo man banda gyapon ng.bayad para ka tukar/lantaw scratch damo lang gid cla guro kwarta... Laughing


notice klng...

ga.intra man ko productions² kg ng.sugod couple years ago.. b4 mg.pagig ka tanan nga gasto halin gd sa production espcly smalltime bar gigs lang,monthly pah.. pro sang ga.amat² na dula ang mga "old time productions",.. and this "new school productions" ga amat² naman gawa... and some of them my kanyang² gimik...


old skul and new skul?.... scratch

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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:13 pm

haha oldschool nana. regression like prehas sang battle of the band days. nga gabayad ang banda tig 500 haha.. subong wala na premyo galeng. bayad lang kmu hehe.. ang banda na ya nga ginapabayad entrance. racket nlang na pra sureball maisip nila ang mga tawu nga makadto. so iinvite nila damu-damu nga bands. tapos sukton sang ticket. 5 members per band b times at least 10 bands equals 50 ka tawu. so sure na nila may 50 nga makagto hehe.. kag subong iban b nga org tamad man mag promote sang ila gigs. wala na mga flyers. sang una ginalakat namun halin cpu asta doctors panapik lang flyers. ang sekreto da. tayubong! hehe

@spook dumduman ko na ang sa undertone. amu na ang may comment kamu parte sa banda nga nagtukar cruisin sa battle? hahaha
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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:24 pm

@ robot - pigado memory ko, but daw amo na bala nga issue mo.... Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:46 am

i think pther forumers has commented naman what i was suppose to say hehehe... pero ang about sa undertone du bal-an ko gid kung ano na nga org mo... hehehe... bato2x sa langit and la gid ko bala idea nga may orgs da subong na ginapabayad ang bands to play para makatukar/frontact sila sa isa ka gig... tsk tsk tsk...

what i know ya sa iban na natukaron ko outside iloilo is may quota kamo na like 5 tickets and if you can't sell them all you can't play... it's a good thing a friend of ours sa manila (audio lokah productions) is breaking this rule.

to new bands out there indi gid kamo magpadala sa orgs na piliton kamo mabayad para lang katukar... ila na responsibility nga mangita and ma-promote sg ila gig you are just there to play unless part ka sang org nila... and shout out man sa mga medyo dugay na sa scene da sa iloilo... let us guide this new bands nga ma meet nyo sa events and stuff maski indi kamo pareho trip and all pero pareho man lang ta tanan gatukar... kulang lang gid siguro brotherly/sisterly(if any) advice and guidance mga new bands da... if we people who has been on this scene can guide them indi man ni sila siguro ma-exploit...
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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:09 am

ill give an honest opinion lang ha no personal attacks here.

Most organizers don't work hard enough to find sponsors for the gig.

There is no such thing as lack of sponsors. If you say there is so... then you are not prepared to organize a gig at all in the first place. You are just not looking hard enough or putting more than enough effort.

How do we get sponsors? Hand out a hundred sponsorship letters and market the production to a company or corporation and convince them that the marketing ROI is worth it.

If you get a positive response in only 10% of the letters, it should be fine.

--------------------------------------------------------------

case in point...

AfterShock 2 here in Bacolod last October 2007.

We handed out more than 150 letters ranging from 500 pesos to 10,000.00 to various corporations, businesses and politicians.

About 20 replied..... but it was more than enough to jumpstart the entire thing.

We pre-sold tickets to as many students as possible.

The keyword in making things work in a dog-eat-dog world is PAKAPAL. So we even sold tickets to our Lola's and neighbors bahala na.

More than two thousand people showed up.

We paid all 11 Bacolod bands 1,000.00 pesos each. Four bands volounteered not to accept the money, my band included.

We paid the boat fare, lunch and dinner for our five Iloilo guest bands.

We gave out 15 cases of beer to the 20 bands.

And the gig made almost Php 150,000.00, already nett of all the expenses.

Php 120,000 pesos was donated to the Corazon Locsin Memorial Hospital Breast Cancer Foundation.

The rest we divided among ourselves the production comprising of 8 people.

How much did it cost the production to put up the gig?

LESS THAN ONE THOUSAND PESOS. For printing the sponsorship letters, snacks and other expenses we pulled out of our own pockets.

Just plain and simple hard work lang kilanlan.

Plete lang capital namon na walo to get the entire thing in place.... and three months preparation.

----------------------------------------

Very Happy

FWIW


----------------------------------------

I'll play a gig for free for the following reasons:

1. Very good friend of mine is organizing the gig.
2. It's a gig for a decent cause.... damo ga gamit sng "cause" thingy so be wary of it.
3. Damo chicks.
4. Damo chicks.
5. If its a big gig like Pulp Summer Slam or MyxMo ill definitely play for free and even pay my way.
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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:27 am

The Spook wrote:
very well said robot!

We at Undertone before touched this issue.... gin confront na ako gani sang isa ka org sang una because of what was written sa Undertone. Ang sabat ko lng sa ila was, were part of the scene and care of what would happen to it in the future. what about you guys?

Im going to speak now not as an admin of Eksena but as a former vocalist of a local band. What im about to say is my personal opinion and does not reflect the opinion of the Eksena staff with regards to this matter.


I think its time for us to take a stand with regards to this. Sorry sa ma igo, but i think its high time to ignore or boycott these orgs or production outfits.

couldn't agree more...
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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:21 pm

@at maki

I'll play a gig for free for the following reasons:

1. Very good friend of mine is organizing the gig.
2. It's a gig for a decent cause.... damo ga gamit sng "cause" thingy so be wary of it.
3. Damo chicks.
4. Damo chicks.
5. If its a big gig like Pulp Summer Slam or MyxMo ill definitely play for free and even pay my way.


Amo gid hahahha YEAH!!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:55 pm

The Spook wrote:
very well said robot!

I think its time for us to take a stand with regards to this. Sorry sa ma igo, but i think its high time to ignore or boycott these orgs or production outfits.


kung ma boycott pwde gid eh.. galing na observe ko iban nga bands especially ang mga new bands kag mga banda nga talagsa lang gna hagad mag tukar mga uhaw na sila sa tukar... teh maski mag bayad sila sa productions para ka tukar ok lang na sa ila basta importante maka tukar sila.. teh sorry sila kay victims sila exploitation!!!
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PostSubject: Re: TILL ITS ON PAPER - For a lack of a better word, its called exploitation. ( 11/17/08 )   Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:07 pm

tsktsk..wala lang tani bayad bayad..ang banda na ganeh matukar tas sila pa mabayad? abusar na nah yah..tani gaan man sang mga organizers sang incentives ang mga matukar..kag tani ma cooperate man mayu ang mga gatukar eh..daw give & take lang bla aw..pra la xado gamu..dvah dvah? hehe Wink

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